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mx2
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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Location: Miami, Florida
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csintexas
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 Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: |
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It would probably help to start with an existing backyard plan and rear elevation. As well as any specific goals -budget, area you want covered,etc.
This sounds like a fun project many folks around here might be interested in contributing to.
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mx2
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Good start...of course. Thanks...here goes nothing: (pdf's??)
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*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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mx2
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:50 am Post subject: |
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It wouldn't take all 4 files..but here's the last and most important one..
mx2
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*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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mx2
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Sweet!! It works nicely...! The PDF's are not bad for keeping my lineweights somewhat legibel...I need to work on reducing them proportionally though. Anyway, these are my preliminary drawings. I have a long ways to go but stopped to re-think the whole thing, which is why I added the "retractable membrane" question??...as far as budget, it's difficult to determine the costs up front but I am planning on re-landscaping my entire property (or should I say landscape, since what I have is crap) and I want to pave the area of this patio (maybe 18x18 concrete pavers on sand) but leave an open space of grass beyond...for kids to play, you know. 
When I have time, I'll send the landscape plan in progress but it's a mess now since I'm trying to balance pleasing my wife, meeting HOA requirements (or restrictions rather) and doing something that will satisfy my desire to push the design a little but still stay within the "traditional" realm, if you will...
So I imagine for this pergola/structure I may be spending a few grand. The real expense is in the plantings and other landscape material. I would have to pull a permit anyway, for this pergola so I am preparing to send it the way you see it without any mention of this membrane. I wanted to add this "after"...on my own time. 
Any thoughts? Good or bad would be much appreciated.
mx2
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*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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csintexas
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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My only thought so far is that the back door could maybe use a permanent awning to protect it from rain. Something I try to avoid is doors without any cover over them. The canvas would do well for rain without wind but I would guess you get some real windy rain storms around there even if they are not hurricanes.
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lekizz
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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Nice manageable project! My understanding of a pergola is a timber ...oops sorry, WOOD structure normally with climbing plants growing up it and across it. From your section drawing, it looks like you are planning a retractable porch.
If you were planning to grow climbing plants on it, wouldn't these tend to clash with any fancy roller-blind mechanism and also clog your gutter with leaves?
And if you were simply designing a retractable porch, when the weather threatened to rain you could wind it back whence it came, negating the need for a gutter...
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mx2
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Chris, the canopy is indeed a good solution but it is far too utilitarian and does not give me a "space" to enjoy. Think of it as an outdoor vestibule, a transition between in and out...if I could afford it, I would love to blow open the wall a bit more to really accomplish this. But I didn't want to get bogged down by the enormity of this sort of structural changes when all I want is to recoup some outdoor space and shade the interior a bit. The canopy over a door would have to be about as big as I show the pergola but I'm not really keen on the "look" of it. It would remind me too much of a cheap waterfront restaurant, without the water. But, maybe there's a way to combine the both of them...that's what I'm hoping to explore here...
Lekizz, I forgot to mention the intent was to be able to enjoy the space even when it rains and when the sun shines once again, then be able to "open" it up agan...imagine I were entertaining guests and it sprinkled. It's insane that I have to move everything in for the 15 minutes of light rain. Right now I have tables and chairs and it's simply not cutting it. As for plants, that is an excellent question and the answer is, I'm not sure. I originally wanted to grow bougainvillea at the columns but don;t want the maintenance hassle so I decided to pot them and place them at corners, probably outside of the area. But I do plan on growing something up the columns but not across the top. Again for maintenance issues and especially if I do invent some contraption of some sort of retractable "roof". I was thinking of either nailing 1x's the length of the pergola, or attaching branches in an even pattern across the top to simulate natural "growth" and provide the added shade.
But the gutter is the end of a sentence...the question is which way should I slope? I was attempting to hide the retractable mechanism behind the beams so as to "disappear" the gizmo. And I figured sincemost people will be looking out, towards the rear of the yard, no one would take notice of the gutter on their way itno the house since the eye usualyl looks ahead at the door on the way inside...at least, that's my analysis so far...
mx2
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*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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lekizz
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, here goes, a simple idea. Why not have a spring loaded retractable canopy, which can be held in place by two(?) large hooks on your two(?) wooden pergola uprights. Maybe no need for a gutter attached to the house in this case, though the casing for the rolled up canopy would need designing so water didn't collect. You could even have a wide gravel filled trough running along parallel to the face of the house to catch the rainfall as it pours off the extended canopy...
I prefer the artisan look to high technology sophistication
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mx2
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting idea...I've been sketching it and the only thing that I seem to be harping on is simply the fact that it would be about 20 feet wide, obviously which would be divided at least in two 10' panels. But the look of it would only be temporary so that aspect is not an issue although not exactly ideal...meaning if it were fixed would this be the most handsome design? Just thinking out loud...I started playing with other ways of rolling out coil-sprung canvasses and was imagining even sloping from the center to the sides, almost creating a canvas gable.
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*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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mx2
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Landy
Joined: 15 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Hope the time you read this you're not half way through construction. I can imagine the drive to claim your house as a place that represents you. Some people add pergolas, other garages and some ad a screened porch. Ask your self if you really need the pergola...There are ways to mitigate UV rays. Have you considered bright orange blinds? Overhangs that serve the openings where sun bothers you the most? Making modifications to the depth of the opening as means to control glare?
pd
please be patient when reading through the lines I'm queer to Jacque's Derrida writing style
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mx2
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Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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It's a valid point but the question of need is subjective I think once we get beyond the basics of shelter. The pergola is not intended to meet a need, traditionally...pergolas and trellises are garden structures meant to grow grape vines and showcase a garden space. The pergolas used to be used to define these types of strcutures that had stone or concrete columns with wood lattice above, and the trellis was all wood. I suppose technically I am deisnging a trellis at this point although I did orginally intend to build concrete columns but recently changed my mind. And trellises get confused as those small wooden plant props, whereas pergolas are more commonly renown. In other words, I have blinds AND drapes that keep my interior shaded well enough and I had upgraded my walls to match the roof insulation (R-30)...but that works only if I close everything. I'm not so sure why it would be preferrable to find the cheapest and simplest solution, which in strictest sense would equate blocking up the wall and leaving a 3'x7' h.m. insul. door....
No thanks. I'm sticking with the pergola mostly because my wife told me so...and I'm really starting to like the idea. And no, I'm in no rush to build, particularly since I have to first convince the HOA (homeowners association) and THEN pull a permit...so I need structural calcs. I suppose none of you know how difficult it is to get either one? Miami-Dade county is notorious for permitting nightmares...so far the longest I've witnessed was about 13 months...the average is about 4 months.
At any rate, another idea was fixing a permanent flat roof over half of the structure and slide another panel over the other when needed, and back when I wat to open it up: like a moonroof with sliding shade in a car.
mx2
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*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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mx2
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1988
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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I found this quite interesting...Taliesin is still teaching (see roofing).
http://www.caed.asu.edu/vitalsigns/pictures/td-pict/history/tadraft.htm
mx2
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*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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kmapro
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Just happened to wander in here and find this post...
Why not just tint the window to prevent/reduce UV rays from coming in the home. I know that, if I read it cirrectly, there is no intent of building the pergola aside from looks - but you did mention that the UV rays are warming your home....Tint is the cheepest and less labor intense option.
That would open up the opportunities for your pergola.
Now, in your first sketch, you show the retractive membrane draining back into the/a gutter. It is possible that the membrane will act as a catch basin and flow too much water back into the gutter - thus counteracting the purpose of the gutter and possible placing you in a worse predicament.
Apply a slight rake to the pergola top - one that is almost undetectable - and place the joists closer together or cover with transluscent plastic panels or lattice sheets.
Just my 2 cents....
Might I also direct you to this website that seems to answer and satisfy your troubles...
http://www.shadetreecanopies.com/pergola/?source=google
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