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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1932
Location: San Francisco
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 900
Location: SW Ohio
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 Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:52 am Post subject: |
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SDR - Thanks for the book suggestion. I headed over to half-price books and they were out of the Schnidler book.
M2X - welcome back. Preservation projects are tough. There are more people who "Think" they should have an opinion that it really bogs down the process. Those people are typically non-architects with no formal training who want to save anything old, but would gladly see Schindler's beach house become bulldozer bait. AARGGH!!!
I have had my share of battles with the state preservation office also..... which I have won each time. Those "experts" are bureaucrats who limited knowledge of architecture, construction, and the history of architecture in this country. I pull out books from my library and start citing works by famous architects that obviously influence the building I am working on and the "expert" suddenly shuts his mouth. And I can't tell you the number of Building Inventory Surveys I have seen that are absolutely wrong. The date, number of stories, you name it.
But I love the detective nature of that work when I get it. |
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1932
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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You know a distinctive and worthy building when you see it -- if you've had some exposure. Some have an intrinsic taste for the genuine, while many more can be led to the light. The country, and the world, possesses a building stock with many many worthy specimens, and it falls to those like the gentlemen above to see that such structures are treated, and used/re-used, with respect.
Thank heaven for the successes; God knows there have been any number of unfortunate losses. In the end, we're all at the mercy of whoever happens to own such property, and the public and private agencies who influence those owners.
SDR |
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mx2
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1988
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Having experienced struggling to get "beautiful" buildings actually built for many years, there is nothing that compares to meeting (like a person) an older well built building...mostly because you see both the same modern challenges overcome in rather intricate & thoughtful ways, the craft of the construction, and the apparent rationale behind many elements...in sharp contrast to the building environment today which is really more about cost/value maximization and adaptive-re-use (leasability)...translation: a box...a BIG box.
SDR says it well...it's an acquired taste for the genuine...many in general will always remain ignorant, as a connoisseur of the Big Mac versus gourmet dining. But once you cross over, and eyes are opened, there's no going back...
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1932
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yes. I can't say what brings it on -- perhaps just a timely word (or picture) at an impressionable age ? To me it's a kind of nature study, which is an almost universal pursuit, isn't it ?
There is a Romanesque church in Brockton, MA that I will recall, perhaps because I took photos of it, thirty years ago. Not Richardson, surely, though I never did track down the architect. Boulder-faced tan random ashlar, trimmed with a red stone and with some carved elements, with bronze-grilled clear-leaded glass oak doors and (some) windows, polychrome slate roofing with copper trim, etc, etc. Such an astounding thing to come upon, anywhere -- though far more likely once than now.
It seems that it is occasionally possible, even today, for some considerable building craft to be exercised, in worthy material. The best of traditional home-building, even in this country (not seen by the masses, most of it) is still done "correctly" in these terms, even if the style might strain credulity, to some, in the twenty-first century. And practitioners like Herzog & de Meuron seem determined to include investigation of building craft as an integral part of practice.
There is always hope. . . |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 900
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| SDR wrote: | | Yes. I can't say what brings it on -- perhaps just a timely word (or picture) at an impressionable age ? |
There were two buildings in my hometown that got me interested at an early age......
The Miami County Courthouse, Troy, Ohio.... by Yost. The upper portion is all cast-iron. I modernized the elevator in this building - preserving all the interior woodwork.
and the Hayner Mansion, which is next door. It was the public library when I was a kid. A cincinnati firm did it.... the original drawings have been framed and are on display. A friend of mine renovated the original carriagehouse into studio space...... absolutely beautiful work. |
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RSCarcht
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 117
Location: USA: RI, CT, NY, MA, FL
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:36 pm Post subject: Schindler |
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Some great pictures of the Schindler House!
Regarding the discussion string of what it takes to get a great building constructed: there is no greater asset than an educated client who cares about architecture. As architects, it is should be our number one job to nurture and educate this rare fauna it hope that its speices flourishes.
Whenever I am complimented on a great design that we have been involved in designing I always say "Spending the money was the easy part. Making the money to spend was the hard part and the credit should go to them."
_________________
Ross Sinclair Cann, AIA APA
http://www.a4arch.com |
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Shady
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:17 pm Post subject: Truth be told |
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I actually have spent a lot of time in and around the Lovell Beach House. Yes, I am involved in providing window coverings for the current owner. I work for a local company who manufactures motorized roller shades and curtains etc. Just walking into the house has opened my eyes to the work of RM Schindler, and the fact that this was built in the 20's and still stands straight on the sands so close to a fault line amazes me.
Like I said in a prior post, I may not be an architect...but I know what I like.
I have always appreciated architecture since I was a kid, and I feel lucky to be involved in so many one of a kind houses that we provide the shades for. I am looked at as a master in my trade, albeit window coverings I still work with a craftsmans spirit knowing that the job I do needs to be as wonderful as the house it adorns. I am still limited by time and budget, but I do my best.
I am less decorator, and more engineer with an eye for detail and beauty.
If anyone has any questions about the house, I'll try to check back and answer them. I am still working there at times, as this was a project to be reckoned with. Thanks everybody for all of the replys to my original post. The house really is appreciated by so many. |
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SDR
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Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1932
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, then, for bringing your skills to such a sensitive job - and for sharing it with us.
I have been encouraged by the trends in minimalist window coverings, always a bone of contention in modernist design. I was an early convert; my childhood bedroom, on the second floor of a thirties builder house, was painted white and shorn of its curtains, by me, near neighbors be damned. Bare windows, with roller shades, were plenty enough. . .!
SDR |
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mx2
millennium club
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1988
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Function can be very beautiful...but it is in the eye of the beholder. Hence, the dualism of Modern-ist angst and adoration...either you love it or you hate it.
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 900
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Shady wrote: | | ......it turns out Schindler was involved in enclosing the sleeping porches in 1928, according to the Historic American Buildings Survey of 1968. |
This always puzzled me. Then this past week I finally got a copy of Schindler published by Taschen and there is this photo...... clearly a photo taken after Schindler's death in 1953 and before the present condition.
Note the car in the lower left hand corner.... seems to be a 70's/80's era car, The balcony windows are not in place. The balcony is filled in with a wood wall that contains punched openings, but no glass? This leads me to believe that Schindler DID NOT have anything to do with the present condition. He might have provided an earlier design, but not what we see now.
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 2452
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: |
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The pic is so dark I can't tell whether the windows are there or not. The original post sited the historic survey so I would have to guess that it was probably correct. Why would they add such small divisions to an already covered porch if not to set windows in? I suppose it could have been screened or the cantilevered roof was failing although either would have been even worse. Also the holes in the balcony wall are already filled in. Why would that be done if the porch has not been enclosed? Could it be the clients wanted more space on a tight budget and Schindler accommodated them?
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-Chris Stewart
http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 900
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Go to the website of the photo I linked and you should be able to see everything better.
The photo is credited to Julius Shulman , a well-known architectural photographer.
The HABS citation might cite Schindler's involvement a later renovation, but the present condition clearly is not what we see in the Shulman's photo. That is my point.
Therefore, I think it is incorrect to credit (or lay blame) Schindler with the current condition. |
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1932
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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With the indulgence of all, here is the photo enlarged.
Might as well show the original presentation sheet, and an old construction photo, published in David Gebhard's pioneer monograph (1980). The enlargement of the section shows Schindler's vertical scale; his 'modulor' was based on 16" vertical divisions, with suitable subdivisions and multiplications; 8" is shown here. This was expressly based on construction materials as well as a personal proportional system.
The horizontal lines in this photo, at the second level, are mysterious; could they be part of a safety railing ?
SDR |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 900
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:13 am Post subject: |
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WOW! Thanks for the enlarged photo. You can clearly see the house is in disrepair and possibly undergoing some sort renovation.
I wonder if we are seeing the removal of the modifications being attributed to Schindler? Note the slight cantilever (overhand).
Also thanks for the plans and sections. That really helps to describe this building. I really need to order the larger monograph you recommended.
I wonder if we can call the garage a side entry  |
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