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colin hewitt
Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 8
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 Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: references - can you crop them? |
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hello all
am experienced at using AutoCAD but only 6 months using PowerCADD
it's becoming increasingly frustrating that we are not currently using references at all
work is duplicated over GA's, area plans, details, more details... you get the picture
am reasonably happy using references but can't seem to be able to crop or edit the reference to enable it to be used at different scales effectively
without using layers to mask the unwanted information i can't think of how to achieve the results that a viewport enables in AutoCAD
please help if you can
thank you in advance for your time and trouble
colin
not so sunny glasgow |
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Matt
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 443
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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I have never seen a flawless implementation of references in PowerCADD, neither with a single-user or in a multi-user environment. I am sure others have, and the fault is mine. As a consequence I avoid them. It seems I am unable to manage the variables successfully, and I am conscious of the fact that the expectations I have from my drawings changes as I create them.
Consequently, references that worked at one stage in the process do not work later. Whenever I feel the temptation to employ a reference, I instead create a very low-res proxy, and refer the user of the drawing to the original. The less information in the proxy means it does not need to be updated as the reference file is edited.
You can mask areas of the reference if you like.
If you have a mountain bike, don't expect it to excel in a sprint. |
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jasonlocher
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 630
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: Re: references - can you crop them? |
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| colin hewitt wrote: | hello all
am experienced at using AutoCAD but only 6 months using PowerCADD
it's becoming increasingly frustrating that we are not currently using references at all
work is duplicated over GA's, area plans, details, more details... you get the picture
am reasonably happy using references but can't seem to be able to crop or edit the reference to enable it to be used at different scales effectively
without using layers to mask the unwanted information i can't think of how to achieve the results that a viewport enables in AutoCAD
please help if you can
thank you in advance for your time and trouble
colin
not so sunny glasgow |
I too am experienced with autocad referencing and have been using powercadd now for around 10 years. I attempted to do a large home using references in powercadd, in order to have a master drawing, and then reference portions of it at 1/4"=1'-0" on sheets. It was a massive disaster. But here is how I did it. You cannot crop xrefs so you have to create masking objects. If you use sheets, forget about it - this alone took my project into the trash. Make sure that none of your layers have names greater than 28 characters... if they do, all layers will duplicate themselves until you literally have tens of thousands of layers. Moving and rotating the xrefs is like nails on a chalkboard... you have to select the xref from the pulldown, then use the move command to very very slowly move it. I'll try to post more later as I am in a rush right now... but I will never ever use xrefs in powercadd again after that debacle. |
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pbacot
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 887
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Not that this solves your problem. Another SW may be the only choice there, but in response to Jason's note:
I have done a few projects where I created two sizes of borders. I used sheets to setup 1/4" plans of parts of the building as well as a an overall plan which is to be printed at 1/8". These plans do not share all text--the overall plan is purposely less verbose and has only major dimensions so you don't have a lot of disproportionately sized text and a lot of duplication of text at two sizes.
Anyway once the sheets and borders are set up (and the stationery can be adapted for other projects by adjusting the borders), it all works pretty easily. It is only for a certain type of drawing--not what we have always wished PC could do. I use "print selection"-setting up the border to be the selectable object that defines the print area properly.
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Peter B |
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Matt
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 443
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| If you have a sprint bike, don't take it out on the mountain trails. |
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colin hewitt
Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: references |
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thank you for your advise Matt
much appreciated
think i need to set my sights a bit lower...
enjoy
c o l i n |
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colin hewitt
Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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thank you
doesn't sound clean
think i will leave them alone
maybe just use them for titleblocks
if at all
thanks again
c o l i n |
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GaryV
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 238
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Does any one use PC referencing successfully? I have never heard of anyone doing so in the various threads that have popped up over the years.
And if using them successfully is the exception rather than the rule, because they plain don't work or function effectively, one (that would be me) wonders why ES continues to support this as a "feature". Anyone have a sense of this?
Gary |
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colin hewitt
Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: Re: references - can you crop them? |
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thanks for the reply jason
sounds messy and very unsatisfactory
don't waste your time expanding on your reply
not going to use references - feels like a big step backwards but there you go
seems the visual capabilities of powerCADD are appreciated more than the practical benefits of AutoCAD here
thanks again
c o l i n |
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colin hewitt
Joined: 20 Nov 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: |
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allo gary
i take it you mean xref's by 'pc references'? - xref's work fine with AutoCAD that's why everybody use's them
makes a whole lot of sense
ho hum back to me powerCADD
will head over your way one day for south x southwest
enjoy...
c o l i n |
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GaryV
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 238
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I meant PowerCadd (PC) Xreferences.
So far, apparently no one is using them successfully. |
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jasonlocher
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 630
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| GaryV wrote: | Yes, I meant PowerCadd (PC) Xreferences.
So far, apparently no one is using them successfully. |
What we really need for xrefs is the ability to crop them just like we can pdf's. Command+click and drag on a grip. I'm not sure requesting remedies is going to do any good with engsw at this point though. |
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pbacot
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 887
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: |
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I've used pdfs as references, of course you have to manually update them. If only PC were able to do that part at least. Once a pdf was added as an XREF then when updated, replace the image (keep cropping, rotation, scale etc.)
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Peter B |
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Damon
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Posts: 29
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Hi Colin et al,
Patience, my friend,
I have also been extremely frustrated by the PCadd referencing system, but I have not necessarily longed for a duplicate of ACAD referencing either.
My system is this: use the library and symbol tools. PCadd's symbol creation, insertion and replacement tools are quite good. Anything can be made into a symbol- details, floor plans, site info, etc. Although making a change requires pasting the relevant symbol, editing it, saving it back into a library, and then doing a 'replace symbol' command, it is at least straightforward. This gives you the ability to edit a 'master' drawing, in this case a symbol, and then update or replace all instances of that symbol. Skip the masking blobs.
BTW if you do use a masking system, make the color of the paper slightly off-white- I use a touch of grey. Makes the the white squares gently visible, and reduces the frustration of selecting invisible objects.
Updating an Xref takes fewer steps, but some of the thinking is similar.
Creating libraries and symbols is very quick and easy, so the organization of that part is easy. Check the manual for group vs. instance for symbol placement.
A viewport equivalent is also not part of the PCadd system, but you can use 'saved views' and work with the print commands to fit to page. Getting the scale correct is a bit more work, but it is with all programs that I know.
BTW, the strengths of PCadd are not all 'visual'. There are many things it does very well, and very quickly. I have been in offices with ACAD, VectorWorks and PowerCadd. All have some strengths, and weaknesses- as I'm sure you will agree. I have used all three of these, and overall for my work, PCadd remains the best of the group. Your experience and work will differ from mine, naturally.
I can't imagine that a referenced title block is very much use- but again that is my experience. You could do a symbol as a title block as well. The stationary system works pretty well.
Damon, from not so sunny Vancouver
[/i]
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Damon
"Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months." Oscar Wilde |
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jasonlocher
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 630
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| pbacot wrote: | | I've used pdfs as references, of course you have to manually update them. If only PC were able to do that part at least. Once a pdf was added as an XREF then when updated, replace the image (keep cropping, rotation, scale etc.) |
a great example of this system is InDesign. It works beautifully. |
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